Supports for Students with Additional Needs

Neasa discussing supports for student with additional needs - for example visual impairments, learning difficulties, motor and mobility impairments - in school and college.

Transcript:

Neasa Hourigan TD: I will return to Mr. Kenny. I sat across from the Minister about two or three years ago and talked at length about reasonable accommodation. I think I had the very small Irish reasonable accommodation document and the very large UK reasonable accommodation document. I asked about this review and was assured it was happening. When I say “review”, I totally understand what the officials were saying about things changing every year. I assume students ask questions every year because their needs are not being met and then the system changes as a result. However, to hear the terms of reference are just agreed and the review has not commenced is really surprising to me. I am wondering whether the officials can set out a timeline. There are students here who are struggling with the lack of reasonable accommodation.

Mr. Neville Kenny, Principal Officer with the Curriculum and Assessment Unit: The first thing about the reasonable accommodations at certificate examinations, RACE, scheme is it is meeting the needs for almost one in four leaving certificate students this year, so there are very significant numbers of students who benefit from those accommodations.

Neasa Hourigan TD: I am sorry, but when Mr. Kenny is meeting the needs of one in four students, what he means is one in four students apply for recognition under reasonable accommodation. I am sure many of those students would say they are not reasonably accommodated.

Mr. Neville Kenny: One in four students in the leaving certificate this year, or almost one in four students, had a reasonable accommodation, so there are a range of reasonable accommodations available. Obviously there are some that are specific to visually impaired students but then there are others more broadly—–

Neasa Hourigan TD: I am just looking for a timeline. I have a very small amount of time. I am just looking for a timeline of the review.

Mr. Neville Kenny: As I have said to Deputy Farrell, we can come back with the detail on the timelines that are concerned, but the composition of the structures about how the review will work are currently being finalised.

Neasa Hourigan TD: Okay. I understand it is the SEC which has the main role here, but does the Department sit on the review body?

Mr. Neville Kenny: The SEC itself is putting in place those review mechanisms as we speak. It has confirmed its terms of reference and now it is looking at exactly how the—–

Neasa Hourigan TD: Has Mr. Kenny seen the terms of reference?

Mr. Neville Kenny: I personally have not seen the terms of reference.

Neasa Hourigan TD: Will they be publishing them?

Mr. Neville Kenny: I would have to come back to the Deputy on that and speak to the SEC.

Neasa Hourigan TD: Does the Department expect to be a member of that group?

Mr. Neville Kenny: The SEC will be engaging with a broad range of stakeholders, and in that regard—–

Neasa Hourigan TD: The Department is not a stakeholder.

Mr. Neville Kenny: I understand that. I expect there would be a role for the Department in that respect.

Neasa Hourigan TD: I am hugely frustrated by Mr. Kenny’s answer. The Department is not a stakeholder, and the SEC sits as an independent body within the Department. We talked at length in the previous session about the lack of joined-up thinking between the good work the Department is doing, such as introducing technology, trying to support students with mobility and trying to increase supports to schools, that falls down when the students come to exams, which is the main barrier to their proceeding to tertiary education. It is, first, very frustrating that the review does not seem to be as progressed as I was led to believe and, second, it is very frustrating that the Department would continue to take such a hands-off approach with a group that is vulnerable in terms of education. It is important that they are engaged and active when it comes to the review of how we undertake exams because there is a very real barrier here. I refer the reasonable accommodation of ten minutes per hour. Anyone who has ever dealt with a child who has a BrailleSense knows it takes ten minutes to boot up the machine and it takes ten minutes to delete something and redo it. It seems extraordinary that it is such a hands-off approach. It undermines the Department’s other work.

Mr. Neville Kenny: Regarding my own specific area of responsibility around senior cycle redevelopment, I have very close working relationships with the SEC. To be fair to the SEC, it has committed to doing and has delivered a number of things since the senior cycle redevelopment programme was announced. For example, in respect of the senior cycle levels 1 and 2 learning programmes, the SEC will be certifying those programmes for the students who come through on those programmes. That is a significant development in itself. It also provided this year, for the first time, integrated reporting of results for students who were taking the leaving certificate applied programme but who had access to leaving certificate established maths or modern foreign languages. That is helping students transition forward. Much work is being delivered by the SEC in relation to how it responds and reflects, or best reflects, the needs of individual students.

Neasa Hourigan TD: Okay, but it is still being taken to court by students for not receiving the correct supports.

Mr. Neville Kenny: Looking at the response to the visually impaired pilot project, for example, a Workplace Relations Commission case was taken that led to the expansion of that scheme from leaving certificate to include junior cycle students. There was always a recognition by the SEC that it will adapt, respond and reflect different needs as they emerge.

Neasa Hourigan TD: Would Mr. Kenny recognise that there is a top-down departmental approach from the SEC where it is not upholding the UNCRPD and the person-centred approach that is now required and that is now actionable in the past few weeks under the optional protocol? I have formed the opinion that the Department is giving the SEC a free run on this. They are not engaging with individuals when an individual, in all of their complexity and specific needs, is telling them the reasonable accommodation they will need and that they have no idea what the SEC will allow them to do. It is a very top-down process and the SEC seems to be an incredibly opaque body.

Mr. Neville Kenny: I recall what I said a moment ago about the number of students who are availing of reasonable accommodations for their certificate examinations. Significant numbers of students have reasonable accommodations made to them. It is not a one-size-fits-all scenario. Different needs are responded to in different ways.

Neasa Hourigan TD: Mr. Kenny is talking about the number of students, which is fine and great, and hopefully we would accommodate them all. From my side of the desk, I am receiving many complaints – not hundreds. I often hear people saying they have no idea what reasonable accommodation they will be given, that nobody will sit down with them and that nobody will talk to them.

Mr. Neville Kenny: Detailed information is provided each year to schools by the SEC. The applications for reasonable accommodations are made by schools on behalf of students in their schools. Information is made available. There is no requirement for a diagnosis in order to access those reasonable accommodations.

Where the applications are made, the SEC is responding. The number of students who are availing of the scheme demonstrates how that responsiveness is being given effect.

Neasa Hourigan TD: There are students here today. Will Mr. Kenny undertake to take some of their details and forward them to the SEC for reasonable accommodation?

Mr. Neville Kenny: Absolutely.